From Forbes magazine:
More than 10 million Americans moved from one county to another during 2008. This map visualizes those moves. Click on any county to see comings and goings: black lines indicate net inward movement, red lines net outward movement.
We won’t state the obvious, except to say that these migration patterns underscore the need to get serious, real serious, about becoming a city known for its talent, opportunity, and sense of place.
To see the map, click here.
Not in 2008 data but I have some anecdotes: (which explain why I read your site).
Due to a merger/acquisition our company is relocating people from the Portland area to the Memphis area. All well paid professional types. I know of 2 families in 2010, and at least one in 2011.
And all the families are bringing spouses with incomes not tied to Memphis which will be new income for the Memphis area.
None have chosen Memphis however, instead choosing Collierville, Germantown, and Olive Branch. None of the families that I know of have even been interested in any spot in Memphis, and in fact are told bluntly by relocation companies to avoid looking for homes in Memphis.
This is a problem that based on reading here I know you are familiar with but I don’t see much in the way of “light at the end of the tunnel”. Two of the families went from living in urban central Portland to suburban communities outside of Portland – mainly because Memphis just doesn’t have much nice urban areas to offer (yet?)
Ironically, we were just having this same discussion here. We’ve been talking for 20 years about the way that real estate agents guide people toward the burbs. Way back when, former Shelby County Mayor Bill Morris met with the industry leaders and told them they were doing a disservice to their clients.
This came after a lot of International Paper employees moved from Manhattan and were led out to the suburbs. Many of them later found out about midtown and other neighborhoods and moved back into Memphis.
It sounds like it’s time for our mayors to do this again.
Funny, none of the operational executives that I know that moved with IP, even lived in the city (NY)at all ! plus, did anyone ever discuss those families working for IP (operations…all corporate never moved) refused to make the move to Memphis.
Real Estate agents in Memphis have been ‘guiding’ people in memphis since about 1981…Crye Leike being the biggest offender, even got investigated for participating in ‘block-busting’ in Hickory Hill-to-Cordova-white flight.
I know many execs in Memphis who have moved far out of memphis…many doctors, and lots of finance pros…one of my good friends, a longtime insurance exec moved to SSW FL, another to outside Orlando, and one other native Memphian I know living in MT will be moving to coastal south Carolina in the summer.
Can’t say I blame them..life is different elsewhere for sure.
Port-
Moved from the Upper Westside (Manhattan) to Midtown- Cooper Young to be specific. While we had previous local experience to draw from, it was dated and not very reliable. Instead we did our own extensive research and identified neighborhoods in which we wished to look- leading us to our home in CY. I cannot say for sure where we would have landed had we not been willing to do our own footwork and lifting at the outset of the process or were absolutely required to buy a home with only a few weeks notice.
Midtown is nice, and an old college buddy actually said that there is nowhere else in Memphis he would consider…
We will see if we end up relocated.
It’s a tragedy really, with all the nice neighborhoods within Memphis city limits, that folks who can afford to purchase do so, often, in the suburbs.
I own in Midtown and love it. Even if I could afford “more house” I would prefer Evergreen, Central Gardens, or Chickasaw Gardens to the suburbs.
…But, I’m the Memphian who gets lost once I pass Highland.
Urbanut: Had we not done our own research while still in California, my company would have likely directed us straight to the suburbs. Thankfully, similar to yourself, we found Midtown and an excellent public school for our kids a few blocks away.
I would think that Mayor Wharton’s administration could learn a lot if they could collaborate with some of the major companies recruiting workers from other states. I think the demographic data would be a confirmation of what the former County Mayor encountered.
However, Midtown is not for everyone so I understand why recruiters/real estate agents push for the new suburbs. It’s a no brainer that provides the safest place for families unfamiliar with Memphis to re-locate. Our family absolutely loves Midtown but it’s come with a cost of having to deal with crime. Thankfully crime is decreasing so perhaps someday recruiters can say with confidence that places in Memphis like Midtown are not only charming and friendly, but they are also quiet and safe places to live. Our neighborhood certainly feels safer than when we first moved in back in 06′.
The last comment belongs to me.
It doesn’t help that IP and FedEX are both east, along with schools like Laussanne and Hutchison/MUS on the eastern edge of Memphis.
Who are the big employers in the city? Autozone? St Judes? Is there an employment core in Memphis?
Major employees in city (of course IP and FedEx are in Memphis but for purposes of this we’re talking about the city limits of 1970. Autozone, Methodist-Lebonheur, St. Jude, Pinnacle, Medtronic,Memphis City Schools, federal government, city government, state government, University of Memphis, First Tennessee Bank,MLGW,UPS, etc.
“None of the families that I know of have even been interested in any spot in Memphis, and in fact are told bluntly by relocation companies to avoid looking for homes in Memphis.”
NOT funny, I was told by more than one real estate agent in Memphis that they couldn’t mention taxes, schools, or whether crime was high here. Imagine the surprise when all that landed VERY negatively at my door, to the EXTREME.
“We’ve been talking for 20 years about the way that real estate agents guide people toward the burbs.”
They’re doing the right thing until Memphis proper gets it’s crap together, don’t bother the mayors just yet.
It’s looking much better than when I moved here, BIG things have changed and are changing for the better. Crime, schools, all making a move for the better and racism is dying here, we should build it a tombstone.
Portland, I agree it doesn’t help when ALL the desirable schools are FAR EAST and the public schools are many times monochromatic in student makeup. But Memphis has a history of ransoming safety. If you want to live outside the “free range prison” you’ll pay for that. That’s changing.
I don’t think forcing people to live in crime riddled areas by omitting facts is anywhere near a good policy, it’s a very bad policy and one that we should be able to sue for damages over. Making people who move here from other places for their work pay for Memphis’ mistakes in planning and implementation is a superstupid idea. Let Memphians move back into bad areas first and straighten out their mess if they are so tough and smart, if not, then newcomers should look FAAAR east and you have no right to judge them for it.
Brian: I just think newcomers should be given a more balanced overview of options to chose from depending on what they prefer especially for those who end up relocating to places like Midtown. Who said anything about “forcing”?
ALL the desirable schools are not FAR EAST. That’s one of those false perceptions that’s hurting our city. Our family has been very impressed with Snowden School and my sons have been provided an excellent public education there. Newcomers need to know that and have those few excellent public schools as an option.
There’s no reason to some folk’s rationale.
who cares ? there is always this crazy notion for people that live in Midtown have always made ‘the better decision’ than people choosing to live elsewhere ! I used to hear this crap all the time : Midtown versus Out EAST….who cares ? let people choose to live where they want to live without making some high-minded bs judgment….but that is by far the types that live in Midtown anyway when fairly compared to anywhere else in the area.
Some people like a Germantown, collierville or Eads or Arlington, etc.
Some people like to have a gas station near their houses, or a 7Eleven, or a Walgreens 5 mins away….again, who cares
We weren’t saying that any person’s decision about where they want to live isn’t valid. But it’s in all of our interests if the heart of Memphis has more people, is denser, and is more successful.
We should all care, because it’s about what makes our community financially and environmentally sustainable.
Great, I agree, so, lets get it cleaned up for real and don’t try to trick newcomers into doing it for you.
Newcomers can get the real stats about the schools all over Memphis by going to a few choice websites including MCS website. But can they believe those stats, can they believe the hype the system puts out?
No.
My kids, which were 2+years ahead of MCS curriculum when we moved here, have inadvertently been going to failing schools due to sandbagged stats, every year I get a report about how the school has failed again.
This is the second of 6 years that I got a government mandated voucher (where were they for the other 4 years? = illegal behavior by MCS!), to let them attend a supposedly non-failing school, so far away it may as well be on MARS where once again, only one race is represented. When I went to get them transferred no surprise, NO LUCK, 6 times. I’ve applied for a medical transfer for my oldest every single year to no avail, apparently the doctors note meant nothing to them. It’s all so illegal.
So now we will consolidate, great move to avoid a gigantic lawsuit, I hope they hurry and head it off at the pass.
I’m should tell every parent I know that has had the same thing happen to them to join a class action suit for 6 billion dollars. No?
Everyone who moves here hears about Snowden, White Station, yada yada yada, it’s not like they don’t get the information. Many can’t make those choices due to all kinds of considerations and OBLIGATIONS.
Omitting information germaine to making an informed choice IS forcing, it’s predatory.
Either way, I hope all that mess gets cleaned up soon or the excuse for not getting it done will be the epitaph on the tombstone. This city is fueled by the school system’s charges, the kids. If you feed them a substandard education, your city will starve and die. If you teach them how to learn, they’ll teach themselves what is omitted and the city will be taken over by them and thrive despite the screw-ups running it into the ground, and they’ll clean them up too. The city is definitely getting better under new leadership, but, it could still die off if the big things don’t get fixed.
Alot of people ask for suburban newer homes. Except for East Memphis Cordova, Midtown tends with a few exceptions to be older home stock with little shopping. In addition what updated housing there is tends to be more expensive.
Newcomers have a critical role in bringing a fresh vision and passion to improving the city. They bring the naive notion that you can improve your community despite the the notion that you can’t.
A person who grows up and becomes accustomed to driving everywhere, buying food at the supermarket will not have the passion and drive to advocate for something they never lost such as a farmers market and living in walkable neighborhoods or going to a skate park.
I don’t feel like someone “tricked me” into pushing for a skate park. It was more about doing something that was important to our local and large skate community but lacked the voice for getting it done.
David: Do you really think people decide where to live based on shopping?
Aaron: Awfully well-said.
Sure some people decide on where to live based on ‘shopping’…things like great supermarkets (for which Memphis doesn’t really have), local specialty stores, pharmacies, and whether there is a gas station relatviely close….so sure people look at shopping…..even suburban wine stores, etc
Intelligently planned suburban stores like Publix intentionally look to build plazas, etc close to a specific demographic in many different cities, esp in FL…but look at where they built in Atlanta…or even Nashville (they will hardly consider coming to Memphis)
Schools also follow populations…so the more suburban growth, the more vocal demand for local schools to meet the demand emanating from the population growth….the government is obligated to respond over time…they can’t simply ignore the loud demand, or simply say ‘too bad’ your kids have to go to a DT school (that won’t go on for long, believe me…money and influence talks loudly)
Frankly, some people don’t give a damn about buzzwords like ‘sustainability’, or ‘density’, they care about things that may supercede those things in their own minds first, or in the interests of their own families which may not coincide with the hopes, dreams or philosophy of a finite group of community knowitalls. Group-think has never been successful in Memphis…it’s more like ‘bifurcated-think’…lol….always will be.
Anon: We’d reply if we had any idea what you were saying. You’re not a rabbi any longer?
I’m not sure what we are arguing about anymore.
Retail & Gas Stations? I can live in North Memphis, South Memphis, Midtown and Downtown and get to reasonable supermarkets as quick as anyone in the burbs. If we are talking car society, I can drive from Front Street or McLean and get to multiple quality grocers and gas stations as easy or easier than someone living on Sanga Road in Cordova or Houston Levee in Collierville.
Influence over Schools? The Downtown Elementary School didn’t just pop up. The Biomedical Foundation’s Charter School didn’t just pop up. Snowden isn’t sought after because the government. Grace St. Lukes and IC don’t exist because of some liberal elite agenda. These are in desirable locations, with desirable homes and in some cases, frankly, loud talking monied population willing to influence something positive for their kids (and other less influential kids too).
Liqour Stores? Joe’s is all I really need.
Inner city development is not that different than suburban development. A few people think urban life is cool and pioneer the area. A few more are introduced through them and join the club. More amenities eventual come as more people join the lifestyle.
Our county has incentivized and regulated against urban options for 60 years. Despite that, cool things continue to happen. Now our region is conspiring against our county and cool things continue to happen. A brilliant professor once told me, “plan all you want, real estate is organic and development will happen where it happens”.
I think a lot of people are frustrated because often we are in our own way. I think other people are frustrated because we succeed in spite of ourselves. I am not asking anyone here today to burn their house down, drive their car into a ditch and move into a high-rise at gunpoint. I just think it would be neat if we had a couple more options for some people and a little better quality everybody.
Oh, and I do think I’m better than you for staying loyal to the inner city.
Ha ha! You’re not!
If I move, and I’ve done plenty of it, I look for racially mixed neighborhoods , schools, groceries, mass transit, parks, and support services all within walking distance. I look for houses that are energy efficient too.
Midtown doesn’t have a lot of energy efficient houses.
Bad energy efficiency is a deal killer for some.
Non-walkablity is a deal killer for others.
Racial makeup is a deal killer for others for different reasons as we all know.
Lack of community gardens is an unattractive thing too.
And of course, the lack of any progress on changing the energy consumption or methods in the city area, such as solar electric grid tied systems on rooftops of downtown buildings, water-cooled AC compressors which use 250% less electricity to cool, solar preheated and assisted hot water tanks and boilers, AC compressor hot side hot water assist, all these things are made commercially, many are used in Canada and place with other than here. It’s like we’re in denial that we’re running out of affordable energy sources.
Either way, you can’t put all your eggs in one basket and you can’t default to denial every time you get caught doing it, as a success strategy.
I agree with your points about the schools, but, you’d have to be well educated and organized to make anything like that happen. The majority of public schools aren’t in that position.
It’s like going to an organization’s meeting only to find out that people only show up to those meetings to make sure the organization can’t get anything done.
He gave up being a rabbi after that Marine Corps stint.